Comments on: Whatever gets them through the door (by Daniel T. Kirk)

By: Karenne Sylvester

Karenne Sylvester — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:10:58 +0000

Yes – that is actually quite fascinating. I’ve just begun classes with a Russian student who has never ever studied officially in any kind of class capacity but self-taught himself over the last couple of years -mainly through work-related events. Fascinating levels of lexis and grammar clashes – really intriguing because I can’t really say that he’s an x or y -in fact it’d be impossible to say whether he’s false beginner or PreIntermediate – because he can read at PreInt but speaks almost zero and writes at Elementaryish… It’s a new student but am hoping to learn a lot more about learning from him.

By: Dan Kirk

Dan Kirk — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:39:33 +0000

Paul,

It would certainly be worth looking into further, the relationship between restrictive social norms in the EFL learner’s L1 and their ability to explore topics of conversation that they would normally avoid.

Have you ever seen any research on a similar topic?

By: Dan Kirk

Dan Kirk — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:31:45 +0000

I’d have to say that the most proficient EFL learners I have come in contact have been Northern Europeans. Very successful, as a broad characterization.

And you’re right, Marta, about people relaxing in class. Lazonov and loads of others have studied the effect that personas change when learners use their target language. If they feel comfortable

By: Dan Kirk

Dan Kirk — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:42:14 +0000

David,

Didn’t even of “belonging” as a motivator. Certainly a significant force, especially here in Japan. I agree that belonging to an English-speaking group hasn’t come into its own here yet. So far, I’d say that the, “I cannot English,” membership is so huge that there will be some significant inertia built up to maintain the status quo.

Would be great when the balanced shifts.

By: Dan Kirk

Dan Kirk — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:35:07 +0000

Karenne,
Had to laugh at the “sheep” motivation. As for the need issue, I have to agree about not learning it at school, but what I would like to study is how much of their learning for their jobs actually happens on the job, with or without classes. My guess is that when English communication skills become necessary, they’ll really start to scramble to build them.

Dan

By: Dan Kirk

Dan Kirk — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:25:52 +0000

Barbara,
Hey, another great motivator, but they end up staying because you are, as you said, “a good, kind teacher.”

There is controversy concerning using the students’ L1 in the L2 classroom, but you certainly brought up a good argument for using it. If that helps people regain their confidence, well then, good enough.

Thanks for the comment.

By: Paul Maglione

Paul Maglione — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:43:53 +0000

Number 9 is a potentially fascinating one concerning learners from cultures with very different attitudes towards consensus (like Japan), voicing one’s opinions, or exploring personal or sensitive issues compared with mainstream Western cultures. It would be very interesting to look further into this, to see if learning English in a very communicative way could also function as a temporary escape-hatch from restrictive or formalized social norms, and whether this could be a real motivating spark for some people in these cultures.

By: Marta

Marta — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:33:37 +0000

the “have to” might include that
- they need to pass exams either at school (and not always possible to pass them after regular school classes) or
- to add another point to their CV, English is almost a must on the job market in Poland.
I also have a student whose dream is to visit Australia one day and he’s one of the most motivated students.
However, after almost a year of teaching one group of adults I know that the main motivation for this particular group now is social interaction, fun and a kind of getting away from daily life, problems etc. I can really see that they relax during the class, laugh a lot and in fact they have 95% attendance. Most of them don’t have time to study at home, however, they apparently make progress.

By: David

David — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:00:24 +0000

Dan,

Appreciate the list and reminder of how diverse our student’s needs and motivations are! I’m glad you mentioned “habit” – I might add also, “have to” or “because Dad paid”.

I’m not sure what category it fits but I find more and more students motivated to learn English so they can “understand” the wider world culture/media. Whether that be to watch “Friends” or understand Eminem’s lyrics or just be part of the world community. This isn’t so much the case in Japan but I’m sure it will arrive in full force, as it has many places in the world. We all want to belong and that’s as powerful a motivator as there is.

David

By: Karenne Sylvester

Karenne Sylvester — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:18:57 +0000

I agree, great list.

#11 – because everyone else is so it really must be necessary

#12 – because they really need it for their jobs and they didn’t learn it despite 12 years of study due to non-communicative classrooms.

Karenne